Anonymous - 15

Response:

Industry engagement is essential in recognizing what the VET sector should look like. Unfortunately as I have been in training both in Australia and the UK, it is very difficult to get the everyday contractor engaged in what is needed. From experience it is always a regular few industries, usually Multi-National organizations that put their voice forward. 

Most small employers, will give certain feedback on pathways and industry requirements, but many do this without a thorough understanding of what is delivered in VET. 

Comments such as you should train the theory and I'll do the practical are common place. Complaints as to why we cover certain aspect of industry training when they only touch on it occasionally, are common place, not understanding that we have a set criteria to meet. 

Many employers are 'too busy' to fully engage and those that are, have their own pre-conceived ideas as to what works for them. 

Many would chose specialized training, (conversations I've previously had with BHP, Rio Tinto etc). although this is difficult for RTO's to deliver due to class sizes, trainer specializations, funding sources etc.  

I have set up on-site delivery and assessment to fully engage with industry previously, but this falls down when industry does not give the time in-house for apprentices to complete their theory. Gaining access for assessments has also been problematic unless the industry is factory based. 

Hopefully industry that has and has had recent apprentices will feedback on this point. 

Response:

Yes

Response:

Not particularly effective. From information that I have received, the entire structure is more about which State gets the loudest voice and pushes their own agenda. 

Evident by the delay in many qualification developments over the last few years where one State refuses to endorse products despite other states being in agreement. 

We get a voice through our industry group, but this is limited due to the nature of how the TAG's and IRC's are run and the power play that goes on in these groups

Response:

The focus of this reform, should be on apprentices and trainees. How well has the VET structure, the qualification framework and competency based training served you in becoming a trades person. What are the advantages, what are the disadvantages. 

What further upskilling would you have to do and should this be part of VET or would this be perceived as further upskilling of skills and knowledge beyond what is needed by an apprentice or trainee. 

Response:

There are so many specialist areas these days. Gone are the days when a particular tradesperson uses skills across every aspect of their trade. 

Qualifications should concern on the basic aspects of each trade, so that each apprentice, trainee comes out with a general understanding of the trade. As many have done over the last few decades, on-going training in different aspects and different technologies comes outside the basis of an apprenticeship/traineeship. 

Whether we go back to a module based training and assessment format and steer away from competency based training and assessment is a major consideration. The majority of tradespeople contractors and employers came through the system before competency based trailing was conceived. Is their skill level below what we expect from an apprentice? 

From my own experience as an apprentice many decades ago, I learned a great number of aspect of my trade, some I have used, others I have not. Many other skills have been learned along the way. 

Response:

I wish we didn't go through this every few years. I have been in training in Australia since 2007. In the UK many years before that. I cannot remember the amount of reviews, papers etc. that have been completed on VET. Every time making the delivery of VET even more difficult. 

in essence, it works. You see the skill level of those coming through the system over the duration of a contract and they learn, mature and develop. They will still make mistakes, they will still forget things they have been taught along the way. 

From what I see. the VET system serves a purpose in whatever format you want to place it. many green apprentices come through the doors of an RTO and at the end, become successful tradespersons, going on to employ their own apprentices. 

This is not a coincidence, it is down to hard work, skilled trainers and good employers to develop these people into what they eventually become

Having another multi-million dollar review, will not change that.